tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10420608.post8885098550277312790..comments2022-11-20T03:00:37.173-08:00Comments on Den Page of Casey June Wolf: Humanizing the Impossible: Ursula Pflug Reviews Finding CreaturesCasey Wolfhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06395893286138513369noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10420608.post-46007957673010936992009-04-11T22:11:00.000-07:002009-04-11T22:11:00.000-07:00I know what you mean, Maggie. I've had those r...I know what you mean, Maggie. I've had those reactions for years when I open my mouth--though it's getting easier. I know there is always someone worse off, but that doesn't mean we don't all have some insight to give, or some real things to say OUCH over. I love the sound of your Mam, though!<BR/><BR/>Glad you liked the review. And to anyone reading Maggie's comments, don't let her kid you. She's the brilliant painter who did the cover for Finding Creatures & Other Stories, and she is amazingly talented. (And wonderful, I have learned since we decided to use her art for the cover.)<BR/><BR/>Hugs, Maggie!Casey Wolfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06395893286138513369noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10420608.post-8114356307194198892009-04-11T14:55:00.000-07:002009-04-11T14:55:00.000-07:00Lol ... No Casey I'm going to go and hide away aga...Lol ... No Casey I'm going to go and hide away again and stick to my doodling, I feel on safer ground. I scare myself when I start rambling political, and I always feel guilty afterwards because I wonder if my thoughts are petty or insignificant, as I know there are others in the world with worst woes, harder burdens, or more important agendas. I can just picture me Mam saying to me now, "you don't know how lucky you are me gal!" Bless her :) By the way I enjoyed the review by Ursula Pflug.Maggie Jonesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10420608.post-18772899338861452102009-04-09T20:03:00.000-07:002009-04-09T20:03:00.000-07:00Hi, Maggie.Thanks so much for your thoughts here. ...Hi, Maggie.<BR/><BR/>Thanks so much for your thoughts here. I understand what you are saying. There seem to be problems with all of these terms, and in many ways it isn't the term itself, but what it comes to mean in our minds, or in the culture generally. <BR/><BR/>I don't worry too much about terms but about how we treat each other, and whether we are open to examining our hearts and actions. I'd be happy to celebrate International Human Day with you; also International Abuse Survivor Day, International Helpful Neighbour Day, International Immigrant Day, and so on... We all have important experiences to share. <BR/><BR/>I think the reason words like feminism are important is because in the general mush, there are always groups whose experience is not quite understood by the whole, and whose needs and points of view tend to get watercoloured out of sight. <BR/><BR/>I agree that men have suffered and been oppressed, and class is a HUGE issue. <BR/><BR/>It's when we have an idea that normal is white, male, middle class, educated, and so on, that the issues of oppression--and that includes the way young white males are hurt--that we have a harder time seeing either how we ourselves are acting out oppressor patterns, or how the world might look from another point of view.<BR/><BR/>So from that angle, I think there is a need for overbalancing in the direction of using words like feminist. But I do see how it can get out of kilter again.<BR/><BR/>I think the bottom line is that as long as we are human, hurt by this and strengthened by that, uneven in our healing and imperfect in our thoughts and actions, there will be problems no matter what we call ourselves. But there will also be growth, and learning, and sharing over time.<BR/><BR/>I'm interested in hearing more about your thoughts about discrimination against class and religion, if you want to share them (with, you know, the entire world here...).<BR/><BR/>Thanks for writing.<BR/>CaseyCasey Wolfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06395893286138513369noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10420608.post-86965213377887929132009-04-09T05:10:00.000-07:002009-04-09T05:10:00.000-07:00An interesting discussion. It's the very thing you...An interesting discussion. It's the very thing you are talking about Casey that left me at odds in my own life. Experiences dictate us, and my experiences as a child didnt reflect some of what I came to feel about the male species as an adult. How could I marry (pardon the pun) my hatred of some men as a kid, to the love and happiness I came to experience with my husband and sons as a young woman? My experiences as a youngster eventually led me to Uni to study Women Studies, and the course though empowering left me with more problematic questions than answers. That slogan 'do you speak for me sister ?' was so apt, because nobody can speak in all entirety for anyone, as we all walk in different shoes. Iv'e also experienced bigotry connected to my class and religion not just my gender. However, Im no 'all knowing' and cannot claim to speak for those people who have also experienced racism because of their colour, or discrimination due to disability, or even because of thier sexual orientation. Womens oppression is specific but certainly not the only oppression, and there are many overlaps. Men are equal partners with us in both being victims and in perpetuating oppression on others. It's all political, its all about power, and it's too complex in its many manifestations to try and pigeon hole and put nice neat little labels on it. Hence why I started to dislike the word 'Feminism'. The very word itself lends weight to being discriminating towards males, and diminished the oppression that men may have experienced also. I came to think it was time to ditch the 'F' word as a dirty word. I preferred a move towards the ideology of 'humanism', a more inclusive term. Ulike some though I dont feel that the ideology of 'humanism' is incompatible with the spiritual or divine. Its about justice, morals, ethics and about education. A humanist life stance can compliment and enrich the spirital side of us, and vice versa in my opinion. I think we should have a 'HUMAN' international day, but that's just my opinion, with all its subjectivness, and born out of my own life experiences :)Maggie V. Jonesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10420608.post-70196065063993473482009-04-07T12:40:00.000-07:002009-04-07T12:40:00.000-07:00Glad you liked the rant. Not often I et _asked_ fo...Glad you liked the rant. Not often I et _asked_ for one! <BR/><BR/>I vaguely remember the werebear. Very vaguely. Not sure you will find much similarity between that and "The Coin", but I'm glad you are giving it a shot. Enjoy!Casey Wolfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06395893286138513369noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10420608.post-73642572583664057872009-04-07T10:36:00.000-07:002009-04-07T10:36:00.000-07:00Thank you for publishing the rant, Casey! As I sa...Thank you for publishing the rant, Casey! As I said in our private exchange, the key is to think humanely and try to see people as distinct individuals.<BR/><BR/>Ursula's description of The Coin reminded me of a Northern Exposure episode in which the main female character, pilot Maggie O'Connell, acquires a summer lover... and it's subtly revealed he's a werebear.<BR/><BR/>I ordered your book and look forward to reading it.Athena Andreadishttp://www.starshipnivan.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10420608.post-29526444611832342312009-04-05T12:34:00.000-07:002009-04-05T12:34:00.000-07:00Thanks, Lynda and Athena. (And Ursula!)Let you hav...Thanks, Lynda and Athena. (And Ursula!)<BR/><BR/>Let you have a look at the rant in question--good point. <BR/><BR/>On a list Ursula and I participate in, one of the members wished us a happy Women's Day, and attached some jokes that were meant kindly to fluff up our sisterly feathers a bit. I was a little distressed by the jokes and tried to explain why.<BR/><BR/>This is what I wrote in response:<BR/><BR/>CJW: hey, CA. thanks for the good woman wishes. to you as well, and a shared wish to all women and non-women in honour of the day.<BR/><BR/>to celebrate i:<BR/><BR/>took a day off. i started the morning with A. Merritt, The Moon Pool (YAY!), and finished the evening with Octavia Butler, The Parable of the Sower. neither of which has anything (much) to do with anything i'm writing (unlike most of my reading these years).<BR/><BR/>in the middle i rearranged furniture, talked with my being-dumped friend on the phone, bought cotton string and shelving materials, ate sun-dried tomato and balsamic vinegar chips, and served raw liver to my cats. it was a good day.<BR/><BR/>but! without meaning disrespect, i get a little squinty-eyed when i get emails that are meant to be pro-woman which end up making "girlfriends" sound like saints and men as one of the rest of life's letdowns.<BR/><BR/>a little background.<BR/><BR/>my mom "joined the women's liberation movement" when i was fourteen, had already been on my own (eg, on the streets) for several months and was now living with her in a small apartment. she had recently left my dad and he had taken the remaning kids and moved back to the prairies. <BR/><BR/>my nineteen year old boyfriend was an ex- (soon to be ex-ex-) junkie, a sensitive soul who had struggled with a deep feeling of self-worthlessness ever since being given up by his mother at birth and being bounced from one foster home to another. when he was thirteen someone finally adopted him--he was a good-looking boy and very smart. this upper middle class, well educated woman lost little time attempting to seduce him, which pretty much destroyed the last hope he had of being part of a real family.<BR/><BR/>well, he thought it was great that my mom was joining women's liberation, and decided he would, too. (this was in 1971. we talked like that in them days. or some of us did.)<BR/><BR/>i thought it was a lousy idea. i thought it would only add to the disinterest she seemed to have in me and my siblings, and feared losing her support entirely. none of us had a clear idea of what feminism really meant, or what it would mean in our lives.<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>over the years, our understanding grew, and whatever the details of our strengths and weaknesses, feminism had a profound impact on how we saw the world, ourselves, and our relationships. i have no regrets in having learned those lessons.<BR/><BR/>but the women that i worked together with in the women's movement were far from perfect, and far from always there for me, or anyone else. many of them were wonderful, of course, but like all human beings they had flaws, and one of the flaws of people who believe they know a truth that the rest of the world resists is that we have a tendency to decry the other guys, to see anyone who doesn't see things our way as the enemy.<BR/><BR/>that wasn't just "sexist pigs". that was women who were not feminists, women who were feminists but not the right kind of feminists, (too militant, not militant enough, lesbian, not lesbian, middle class white professional, lowbrow working class, etc. etc.).<BR/><BR/>nobody was trying to be a jerk. we all really believed and we were right about the broad brush, but not always right about the details and methods of getting from a to b.<BR/><BR/>although i learned a lot about friendship and solidarity and the joy of working for something truly important, i also got the brunt of a lot of judgemental attitudes because of my ways of thinking and perceiving and simply being. attempts to control my thinking were out front and obvious, done to protect us all from being diverted from our goals, and i saw a lot of harm done to other women, too, by well-meaning but narrow-minded and, i might say, desperate people.<BR/><BR/>i think that fear is responsible for much of the in-fighting in the left. we see terrible things that have hurt us and we want to change them, and any small thing can be seen as a threat to that over-arching goal. our fear of not achieving a better world can lead us to being right jerks in the present one. by the end of my four years at the particular place i worked, i was a wreck.<BR/><BR/>i found myself so constrained by all the right perspectives we had argued out that it was difficult to just be human. when i left that group i had one clear goal in mind (after picking myself up off the floor).<BR/><BR/>i wanted to learn how to listen to and care about people no matter what their opinions were, no matter whether i thought their way of thinking would take us to the brink of destruction or not. i wanted to be human enough to love even when that judgemental side of me feared them and wanted to cut them down. because i had gone far enough in the direction of one-right-way to see how dehumanizing and destructive it is for all of us. and because i could see that nothing is accomplished by polarizing into camps. it only deepens the divide.<BR/><BR/>i am surprised and saddened sometimes by the extent to which sexism still has hold in our society, and i am proud of the many women who have taken so many risks to understand and correct that situation, whether i like their conclusions and their way of doing it, or not. i also value the many women i have loved and befriended, beneighboured or simply friendily bestrangered over the years. my life has been enriched by them, their humour, their kindness, their intelligence, their wildly varying perspectives, their unique lives and lessons.<BR/><BR/>equally the men. and equal to the men in my life, the women have been at times opaque, cruel, blaming, cowardly, and righteously wrong.<BR/><BR/>we have all been hurt by sexism. men have not suffered in the same ways as women, but any system of oppression has costs on a deeply human level for both the guy on top and the guy below. those costs translate into limitations in their self-image and screwups in their treatment of themselves and those around them. but when the chips are down, it isn't always a woman who is there when you need her. often it's a man.<BR/><BR/>so please, when you wish me a happy women's day, don't think you need to set me and all womanhood above our brothers, sons, and dads. yes, they've screwed up. so have we. and we are all muddling through as best we can. together.<BR/><BR/>i do appreciate the recognition and celebration of our struggle and sisterhood. i am very grateful to the women who have taught me to question and resist those destructive messages. and i am grateful to my old ex-ex-junkie ex and all the other men i have known who have valued women enough to try to figure that stuff out, too, and have made so many great changes in their--and our--lives.<BR/><BR/>so, happy international women's day, everybody!<BR/><BR/>casey<BR/><BR/>CA wrote:<BR/><BR/> Wow Casey, you obviously have some strong feelings on this topic, but you read far more into this than I think was meant either by the woman who sent this on to me or me myself. International women's Day is a recognized holiday like St. Patric's Day. If I say happy St. Pat's to people on that day, does that mean I'm dissing all non-Irish catholics? I don't think so. There is a lot of hard won wisdom in what you said, but your reply was maybe a little harsh. CA<BR/><BR/> CJW: i'm truly sorry if i offended you and i hope you will read my letter again in a different light. it wasn't meant with any harshness at all, but in fact with great empathy. i tried to make clear that i wasn't at all offended by your intention--to wish us a happy women's day--and that i appreciate that. <BR/><BR/>but ever since i got on email, most of the forwards i have received that were intended to celebrate women have done so by trying to idealize us and taking shots at men.<BR/><BR/>i don't think we need to do either of those things to appreciate and encourage ourselves and other women. we really are good people, even though we screw up in lots of ways and fail each other sometimes and ourselves as well, often because of the sexism we have internalized. we really are amazing in our real struggles and victories. and we do deserve to celebrate our achievements and our solidarity.<BR/><BR/>i know the messages aren't intended to hurt, and neither was my response. they are written with humour and affection, and that is great. but they fail to see who we really are--flawed and wonderful human beings who are striving against the confusion and difficulties caused by a hurtful, inherited world view. and they set up or rather continue some of the confusion inherent in that worldview, that us-and-them thing, the idea that in order to be truly good we have to be perfect, and so on.<BR/><BR/>funnily, when my feelings on this topic really were strong, i would never have written that note. or if i had it would have come after great provocation and would have been accompanied with anger. i just wanted to explain my thinking about something that goes around all the time without comment.<BR/><BR/>once more, i'm sorry if my attempts to explain my thinking felt personally directed at you. i was trying (clearly unsuccessfully!) not to do that--particularly when it was clear that you were well-wishing, something i am greatly in favour of.<BR/><BR/>oh--and i was not in any way protesting your wishing us a happy women's day. your st. patrick's day example isn't a parallel. if you sent around a message about st. patrick's day that put catholics and protestants in an equivalent light, then yeah, i would have an issue. (as a matter of fact, being in the main a mix of irish catholic and irish protestant, i do have a problem with a lot of what passes for humour regarding the irish.)<BR/><BR/>i know you wrote to me off-list, but you haven't said anything i find particularly embarrassing and i want to respond to the list as well--if you read my letter that way, then like as not other people did, too.<BR/><BR/>cheers,<BR/>casey<BR/><BR/><BR/>"Love is a demonstrative emotion."<BR/>Words of Wisdom, Sistah SouljahCasey Wolfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06395893286138513369noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10420608.post-47689958231233631362009-04-05T10:07:00.000-07:002009-04-05T10:07:00.000-07:00Sounds like a marvelous collection. And could I p...Sounds like a marvelous collection. And could I please have a link to/copy of that rant??<BR/><BR/>Thank you!<BR/><BR/>Athena Andreadis<BR/><A HREF="http://www.starshipnivan.com" REL="nofollow">Starship Reckless</A><BR/><A HREF="http://www.toseekoutnewlife.com" REL="nofollow">To Seek Out New Life: The Biology of Star Trek</A>Athena Andreadishttp://www.starshipnivan.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10420608.post-82681908828581533752009-04-05T10:04:00.000-07:002009-04-05T10:04:00.000-07:00"deeply passionate and personal and intelligent" w..."deeply passionate and personal and intelligent" works for me. And I think I need an Angel. :-) Thanks for telling me about Finding Creatures.Lyndahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07788269318643736775noreply@blogger.com